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Tracey Edelist, PhD's avatar

Clare, I too had a difficult time with this chapter (what chapter haven’t I had a hard time with? Lol). I didn’t get riled up this time though, as I’ve come to realize I don’t share the same overall worldview as Cameron so I’m not expecting much. It is especially clear in this chapter that she is writing for people who live a life like her (a horse!?!), and that she’s not considering the vast differences in people’s life experiences and circumstances. Someone can only tell you not to worry about money if they’ve never had to worry about money, or if they’ve chosen a lifestyle that doesn’t rely as much on money.

I completely agree about The Secret! I’ve felt that much of this book contains similar ideas to the Secret: believe it and it will happen. In my opinion, things don’t just happen because you want them to and believe they will. This is the fundamental difference in beliefs and values between me and Cameron. I do not believe that “God” will give you whatever you want/need if only you put your trust and faith in God. I believe you actually have to work toward what you want, and be open to new opportunities that come your way because of the work you’ve done. I belief in working with the life energies (whatever that means for you) around us, not depending on an external life force to give you a good life. We ebb and flow with the universe, giving and receiving; we have responsibility to do good in the world, not just to think good things are owed to us if we open ourselves up to it. And another side to feeling like your life is shit, that you are doing something wrong since “God” is not being generous to you, is that thinking that way also doesn’t allow credit to go to the person responsible for making good things happen creatively: you!

I didn’t know that history of AA, thanks for sharing! One of my great uncles founded the Salvation Army alcohol recovery program in Toronto, with the main focus on accepting Jesus as your saviour, putting your faith in him – more religious I suppose than AA. I grew up in the Salvation Army and don’t agree with most of their teachings (it felt like brainwashing to me), but I’ve always been curious about the link between religion and sobriety, as a way to help me understand the good that might come from these beliefs.

I also felt a disconnect between the focus on money, and joy and abundance. I feel like this chapter could be so much more meaningful and useful if it were focused on joy and abundance, addressing how money issues may interact with joy and abundance in a more realistic way.

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Clare Egan's avatar

Hi Tracey, glad to hear this chapter didn't rile you up! I had to take a few deep breaths to get through it! :)

I think you've captured beautifully how we don't need to believe in "God" in whatever way we understand that idea, but can be open to working with the ebbs and flows of life. Maybe we'll find synchronicity or maybe we won't, but our posture towards life is slightly different.

I love the idea of this chapter being framed more around money, joy and abundance and how they interact. It feels so much more realistic than this chapter's lofty ideals. I mean a horse? Really.. Anyway, if you ever write your own version of The Artist's Way (or even a post on this topic), I think it'd be really interesting to explore.

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Tracey Edelist, PhD's avatar

It seems like that could be something for you, Clare, writing your own version of The Artist's Way!

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Clare Egan's avatar

Maybe Tracey.. maybe. That wasn't my intention when I started this process at all, but as the weeks tick by, I'm seeing how much I have to say on these topics. I guess we'll see.. 💕 (& thank you for the encouragement. I really appreciate it!)

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Tracey Edelist, PhD's avatar

I think you could develop something wonderful!

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Clare Egan's avatar

💕💕

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Amy Brown's avatar

Thoughtful comment Tracey; appreciated it & agree with you I would have liked more focus on joy & abundance

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Clare Egan's avatar

It always warms my heart to see you cheer eachother on 💕

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Sarah  Hawkins (she/her)'s avatar

I found this chapter important and engaging. Virginia Woolf, I think it was, wrote about the need to have “a room of one’s own” to be enabled to write and create in peace. She was well aware that the roof over that room needed to be paid for first. This is a problem that most of us struggle with, and sometimes agonise over. Shift and full time work can be all consuming and draining, but sometimes we need to do it to put food on the table and pay our utility bills. I can see why you got irritated with Julia Cameron when she bought a horse - writing is a notoriously badly paid and insecure profession! I still think that people are ashamed to share their experiences of poor money management, and that more good guidance on the subject is needed. People are generally fine once they get to a place of financial security to then look back and tell others about how much of a struggle it was to achieve it. The problem lies in our pride to not want to share our anxiety about poverty when it’s actually happening. I’ve spent many hours helping people with benefit claims and debt advice as a money advisor. Low income and money insecurity is one of the biggest drivers of mental illness after trauma because the stigma results in the problems mushrooming in silence. When people with mental health problems have accessed the charity I worked for with debt eating them alive, and I have said, okay, I’m going to write these letters for you, this is the order you need to pay them in, the relief was palpable coming off them. But there are private companies out there that charge for that service, adding to people’s debts in return for managing them. All this insecurity could have been avoided if these skills were taught properly in the teenage years. Coming back to the Artists Way, it’s a really important issue to address because insecurity really can hold back your potential as a creative. Maybe you could write a more down to earth book than Julia Cameron’s 🙂

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Clare Egan's avatar

I love that Virginia Woolf quote. It's great to have "a room of one's own" and I do (thanks to the generosity of my partner, who allowed me to use our spare bedroom as an office). It's an incredible gift though, and I never take it for granted.

I was broke in my early 20s, shortly after my mother died. I never hid it, though my issue was that a lot of people are broke in their early 20s! For my peers, being "broke" was not having enough to go out drinking a few nights a week. For me, it was not having enough to buy both lunch and dinner. It's one of really hard things about experiencing grief when your young - my peers really couldn't understand what I was going through. But I agree that it's important to talk about money, especially for writers/creatives.

It was interesting to read about your work as a money advisor. There's an enormous overlap between financial precarity and deep human suffering. I really wish more people (and especially people in power!) understood that. Thanks for the encouragement to maybe write my own book on creativity one day - I'd love to. Guiding this community through The Artist's Way has really helped me to see what I would like to say if I ever get the opportunity.

Great to have you here Sarah - thanks for sharing a little of your experience with us 💕

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Amy Brown's avatar

You could write a great book on creativity Clare!

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Clare Egan's avatar

Ah, thank you Amy. Maybe someday 💕

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Adina Dinu's avatar

Oh Clare, this got my blood pressure up :):). As someone who's had to make an actual plan for the possibility of becoming homeless and who at times had to buy the biggest, cheapest body wash bottle available and use it as soap, shampoo and washing up liquid, let me just say: money problems often obliterate any artistic pursuit (unless that pursuit is a sure path to meaningful and reliable income, which it rarely is). I don't know much about Julia Cameron but I suspect her life experience was spared of such moments of reflection.

I also think charging a fee for this type of event would be perfectly fine. I wouldn't want something for free from someone who's making a sacrifice to deliver.

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Clare Egan's avatar

I hear you Adina. I've been scarily broke a few times in my life, and I can promise you I wasn't thinking about creative bliss in those moments. I was focused on food, staying warm and having a place to live. Maybe I was using my creative muscles to stretch my meagre earnings as much as humanly possible, but it wasn't the kind of creative endeavour I enjoy!

Thanks also for your kind words re: charging for this experience. I've loved hosting this experience for the community. It's been deeply fulfilling for me, and I'm excited to hopefully do more of it. But I know I also need to think about sustainability 💕

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Jewel's avatar

Money and creative abundance. I’d like to say that this is old news for me, but it isn’t. Cameron is correct that this dynamic gets in my way, and ignoring it hasn’t solved it. So, I leaned in hard, again.

I got so much from reading your thoughts on the subject, Clare, and found myself returning to sections as I saw the chapter through your personal experience. Thank you for that.

I tend to focus on the “big things” I believe stand in my way of being creative, but I feel Cameron alludes to the little things that can derail us without us even really being aware of it. Two things can be true at once. I am satisfied (for the most part) and able to be creative. At the same time, even when I feel I have a handle on finances, it creeps in and, like a tiny pebble in your shoe, a blister can begin to form.

I agree with you about money and safety, while acknowledging that good creativity happens when there is no safety at all, too. Maybe Cameron is suggesting we can be prone to overestimating what safety we need and how we might be allowing unnecessary blocks to hinder us because of it. Clare, I think you nailed it when you said, “When I look back on my broke years, I wish I’d been kinder to myself. I wish I’d let myself live a little more, rather than being so beholden to a savings plan. There are writers I admire who have prioritised their art and published beautiful books, though they still live very precariously.” I think this is what Cameron is getting at.

Keeping in mind that the book was written over 30 years ago, I tend to forgive certain things that might have been considered differently when read 30 years ago. The AA reference is one of them. Remembering to use my definition of “god” took the sting out of her words that got my back up. I do believe that sometimes we are so busy trying to succeed at something that we struggle up this mountain when, if we’d taken a pause, we would have noticed the stairs carved in the mountain right beside us. For me, that’s the giving it over to “god”. It’s me stepping back and saying ok, what am I missing, I’m open to receiving. Honestly, I’ve been pleasantly surprised at the results when I do this

“There is enormous value in finding acceptance for the circumstances of our lives. But most world religions are still profoundly patriarchal institutions.” I agree with Clare and Holly Whitaker (who also has a great Substack) on the points articulated on this topic.

Cameron says about successful members of AA, “EXPECTING divine help, they tend to receive it. Tangled lives smooth out; tangled relationships gain sanity and sweetness.” I had to sit with the divine help concept a little before, I wondered if this divine help is the very combined, timed, encompassing earthly help that AA provides. It’s not an overnight miracle change, though, in hindsight, it may feel that way, I suppose. Divinity, in my opinion, is comprised of the personal desire, the expectation, the sponsors, the commitment to meetings, and following the practices, leaning into truth, honesty and healing. It is about being open to help outside of what you can fully define, help that works for you and with you by accepting and having a little faith and trust in something bigger than yourself. That’s the magic part, the divine part.

Anytime I’ve tracked my spending, I begin to see not only what I spend my money on but where I spend it. I spend on necessities, I’ll spend on others, and I’ll often put what I want (even if it wasn’t what we would term luxury) back. This was telling.

Without staying conscious about this, I allow the imbalance in my life by leaning toward serving others and forgetting about myself. Why didn’t I make the small purchase for myself? Guilt? Unworthiness? Value for the cost? It came down to “I didn’t need it enough,” but no one else needed what I bought them either, so this became a morning page reflection.

The other thing I realized is that we all have our own definition of luxury (often that it’s frivolous). A bath after a week of trudging in the mountains with only ice water streams felt like a luxury. Any other day of the week, it was just a bath, a way to relax a little, and get clean, certainly not a luxury. My dad used to tell me that when he was little in the 1930’s a fresh orange at Christmas was a luxury. For Cameron, at that point in her life, a horse was a luxury for her. I’ll take an entire uninterrupted weekend alone, even if it’s at home.

Money can be very triggering in different ways, and I think this was Cameron’s underlying motive here. She wants us to look at how we let this thing called money, which we deal with every day, impact us.

Cameron’s nuanced language created some friction, which causes heat, which triggers our reaction. I think that’s her intention. Words like God, deprivation, divine and luxury are designed to trigger us enough to reflect on our beliefs and patterns more closely to tease out less obvious things that might be that pebble in our shoe we hadn’t noticed at first. Morning pages have helped process through this.

Clare, I was struck by your thoughts on The Secret when you wrote about “how deeply unhelpful that book was. Not only was my life shit, but it was my fault that it was shit. It was my fault because I didn't believe that I deserved better. I felt like the shit on somebody’s shoe.” What a good example of how different people with different lived experiences interpret something differently. When I read The Secret, my interpretation wasn’t that I was flawed; I didn’t see myself as the problem. Rather, it was more like the summer a friend helped me adjust my stance slightly to improve my accuracy hitting the ball through the croquet gate. We perceive life through the lens of our experience. Sometimes it takes someone else to help us see another view that exists at the same time.

I haven’t started the tasks or decided on an Artist date yet, so I’m extra grateful I can give myself space to carry this week into our upcoming rest week.

Quotes I highlighted in Chapter 6:

“We cling to our financial concerns as a way to avoid not only our art but also our spiritual growth. Our faith is in the dollar.” That said, I want financial security too and believe in finding the balance that is right for me.

“Most of us harbor a secret belief that work has to be work and not play, and that anything we really want to do – like write… must be considered frivolous and be placed a distant second.”

“Many of us equate difficulty with virtue.” I wonder where we got this idea from. It seems to be a common thread of a lot of religions.

“Do we have any proof at all for these ideas about God?” Well, now that you put it that way. Another excellent morning page exercise. What am I basing my beliefs about “god” on? Why?

“We act like it’s God’s fault we didn’t… In truth, we, not God, have decided not to go.”

“The actual block is our feeling of constriction, our sense of powerlessness.”

“If you want to make some art, make some art. Just a little art… two sentences. One rhyme. A silly kindergarten ditty.” Honestly, this practice is refreshing.

“Making art begins with making hay while the sun shines.” My mother would have loved this quote.

“Because I have learned to hear Wet Blanket messages for what they are.” I have a wet blanket person in my life and this really resonated. Like Cameron, I am no longer daunted, at least not too much. But I, too, am saddened.

“When we put a stopper on our capacity for joy by anorectically declining the small gifts of life, we turn aside the larger gifts as well.”

“It’s less than a movie. Less than a deluxe cheeseburger. I guess it’s just more than I thought I was worth.”

“Creative living requires the LUXURY of time, which we carve out for ourselves – even if it’s fifteen minutes for quick morning pages.”

“Often our spending differs from our real values. We fritter away cash on things we don’t cherish and deny ourselves those things we do.”

I look forward to catching up with everyone’s posts for week 6. Have a wonderful rest week. Thank you for reading if you made it this far.

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Amy Brown's avatar

Great analysis and insights Jewel that got me thinking in new ways about the chapter

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Catriona Knapman's avatar

Oh there is so much in this chapter and this piece Clare. I want to comment on half of what you have written here. For me, my time as a scottish white women in a fairly elitist industry plus studying yoga for many years has meant that I have unpicked a lot of this as a result of feeling exactly that - that somehow things are my fault or I should be ashamed of my tendencies. I have so many examples I could share - and I had no idea of the AA foundations - I have had that exact same thought about various yoga and meditation teachings after making myself suffer inside of them for so long.

Relate so much to the menu scanning - and I used to shame myself about doing that - but since i realised I was brought up worrying about money plus I have never had a stable job my entire adult life, I am more accepting of my frugal menu tendencies - they come from pragmatism. And I am not a big foodie, if I have money, I want to spend it on other things, rather than have to want to spend it on expensive food because other people say that is what you are meant to do.

Living in Dubai has been good at teaching me about having a bit of daily abundance and ease. But again the contract abruptly came to an end.

Living in Dubai has also made me aware how much some people have - easily, lazily, often entitled(ly). I didn't always feel comfortable with the wealth I saw here or how ill-informed people with extreme wealth are about the way life works for most people.

There are, of course, nuances to these debates about scarcity and abundance which we rarely hear. Mostly we hear women with horses tell us to trust the universe more. I am ok with that actually - because I think those of us who grew up without the financial reality of buying horses can learn something from that way of thinking - but equally there needs to be a consideration of the structural systems which inform who ends up even getting a step up into having in our global world.

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Clare Egan's avatar

"Making myself suffer inside them"... oh I felt that in my bones. It's incredible how we can both be (a) suffering and (b) somehow at fault for our own suffering.

I've come to really appreciate my frugality too. I've being really fucking broke, and I'm still here. I survived. I truly don't need much to be happy and in a way, that allows me to live a freer life. I do still wake up at 3am to worry about money, but I can also eat beans quite happily for a week and not feel like I'm missing out on anything.

"Mostly we hear women with horses tell us to trust the universe more" made me LOL. I do think I've something to learn from that kind of entitlement/expectation that I deserve a freaking horse though. It would be useful to balance my instincts toward self-denial but as you say, there's a lot more nuance and complexity to these questions than what's included in this chapter!

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Amy Brown's avatar

Catriona, you made me smile with: ‘Mostly we hear women with horses tell us to trust the universe more.’

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Clare Egan's avatar

💕💕

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Amy Brown's avatar

Clare, I appreciate all the work you are putting into this making this a rich experience for us (speaking of abundance!), thank you! I love your honesty in this analysis (yes to Cameron and her purchase of a horse...not exactly everyone's possibility for a luxury). This week struck me hard because I find myself thinking a lot about abundance vs scarcity, not so much money, but in terms of time. My age (65) and my dreams to yet publish a novel (or something:-) and it's hard not let fleeing time and increasing age make dreams feel less possible. That is the scarcity I fight daily. As for money, I relate to what you write here Clare about taking the sensible job and wanting financial security. I had to work my way through college and take out loans and support myself after graduation. There was no way my parents could support me if I had chosen the path of the "starving artist in her garret" as I might have romanticized the dream I had at twenty-one. So I became a newspaper journalist, telling myself it was still "writing," (see earlier chapter on shadow careers for the artist). Then I became so good at being a journalist and then a business magazine writer and editor that after my move to Sweden, securing a lot of contract with multinational companies, I ended up being the sole financial support of my family. My ex-husband, a kind but ineffective entrepreneur with big dreams and no follow-through, had a chronic failure to launch--But me? I could do the work and do it well and get paid well for it. I was proud that I could support my family, my two daughters, ensure they had the private education and experiences they desired. Meanwhile, my novel writing dreams slipped to the fringes of my life. Even now, I still work as a business writer, still struggling with the financial anxiety that kept driving me all those years of my marriage (because if I didn't work, who would?) How much money is enough? This chapter awakened a lot for me that I am still parsing. When Cameron writes, "I have to keep a roof over my head. No one is going to pay me to be more creative," I hear myself thinking that countless times. Who is going to pay me to write fiction, creative non fiction? How can I make a living at the writing that I am most passionate about, where I think my real gifts lie? And even now, when I have a decent amount of financial security, I still hesitate to take the plunge of giving up the safety of my business writing. I did not do the count money exercise; I've done it before and pretty much know where things stand. As for luxuries, buying myself a new flower for my flower box, getting a new book I've ordered. That's a luxury.

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Clare Egan's avatar

Loved reading this reflection on abundance and time, Amy. It's one of the things I love most about doing The Artist's Way as a community - everyone comes to it with their own perspectives, which makes it a richer and more nuanced exploration for everyone.

I related a lot to your reflections on prioritising financial security over creative fulfilment. I'm still trying to unspool that knot in my own life. For me, there have certainly been many times where I put my dream aside in order to do the "sensible" thing, to earn enough money to feel safe in the world. As I work through this process though, I'm also realising that there are also times when I haven't returned to my novel despite having the time and skills to do it. Something else has kept me from it. A piece of it, I think, is the overwhelm of a big project. I don't want to sink time into something that I don't think will ever be read/published/a success. It's also a painful story to revisit, and I'm understandably avoiding that. But.. those rational explanations aside, I also know it's not the full story. I'm scared to return to it, to do the hard work of making the dream into more of a reality. It feels hard to face that sometimes, but this experience is helping me see things more clearly and I'm grateful for that.

Your story, of course, will be different from mine but I wanted to share a little of what I'm untangling right now. I don't expect to have it figured out over the next few weeks, but I am committed to trying to find my way through.

Thanks for being here, Amy. I'm so grateful to be in community with you 💕

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Amy Brown's avatar

I so appreciate you untangling all of this beside me. It is true that doing this as a community is so enriching. And I get that fear around attempting this very big thing like a novel which means so much to us. I find that when I can focus on the joy, or absorption, that comes in the writing itself it can help push aside what home this work may eventually have in the world. If it has a home in my heart, perhaps that’s enough 💗

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Clare Egan's avatar

Beautifully put, Amy. I often feel similarly about my own novel. It changed my life to write it, and maybe that's enough 💕

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